Meanwhile despite the usual pathetic claims Hamas do in fact seem likely to be restained by angry Palestinians who, while hating Israel, fear her. That's about all Israel could hope to achieve. The cost - around 1300 Palestinians dead and 13 Israelis. Hamas has already declared victory (!) and announced its its intention to replenish its arms stockpiles. They will continue their mission to secure 'holy weapons'.
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16 comments:
Harry, it's all very well to make easy and obvious snipes from the sidelines, but have you got any solutions? If you do, you'll become rich, (even more) famous, and win the Nobel Peace Prize.
I don't think this conflict will end any time soon. Now imagine how brothers and sisters, dads and mothers of those 1300 killed angry. Invasion to Gaza has just escalated the problem.
Harry,
We can be lucky that Hamas have not the nous nor murdered as many innocents as the Irigun or the Stern Gang did back in 1948.
Hamas cannot destroy Israel nor even give it a bloody nose.
How about Israel trying to boost trade in the area.
Let Palestinians pursue the 'dream like most people in the Western world!!
meanwhile, in New York
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo
Remains to be seen Bek. You perhaps missed the NYT report, with name and photo unfortunately, of the Gazan woman blaming with passion Hamas for the death of her daughter. I say unfortunately because Hamas has been busy during the current war taking out any who oppose them.
The idea that Gazans will automatically support Hamas for the death and destruction that has befallen them seems to me to be very insulting to Gazans. That they are indifferent to the fact that the leaders of Hamas skulk in Damascus while publicly stating that they are all to be martyrs to the cause of Hamas seems both counterintuitive and not supported by the facts.
Hamas’s support was on the wain, markedly, see
http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2008/p30e.html
Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research
I heard a Palestinian pollster on ABC News Radio today saying that Hamas’s support prior to this Israeli action to be as low as 20% and this pollster expected it to fall to about 12% as a result.
The following Pew analysis doesn’t exactly correlate with excited western haters of Israel’s expectations that Hamas is a hero of Muslims. That they hate Jews so much is worrying.
http://tomlovetexas.blogspot.com/2009/01/before-israels-invasion-hamas.html
By victory Hamas means victory against Fatah. This is nothing like Hizbollah's victory in the Lebanon war of 2006.
This is Hamas' rally today
Here
and this is Fatah's rally
Here
No one of good will can celebrate what we have seen. The images of those dead children should weigh heavily on anyone with an ounce of humanity. Only the most bitter and twisted in this world were not affected by the horror.
You picked a disgusting picture of the net to help you further dehumanize Palestinians Harry. That is frankly shameful. While some of your readers and friends may enjoy these obvious and well tried methods, I think that its disgraceful.
Rabee, Not true.
Hamas declared victory over Israel for surviving the onslaught. BTW Hezbollah only declared victory after they saw the negative reaction in Israel to the military effort.
Of course the 1300 deaths were an atrocity. They are down to Hamas.
The picture was not doctored. Who gave the little girl that poster? who has the nerve to use such a placard in the street?
You bet it is disgusting.
Harry, you are right. Perhaps, that little cute girl does not undertsand why she is holding this poster. Children at this age should be playing in the playground not holding posters regardless what is happening in crazy outside world.
Harry
Let me try to explain to the indefensible nature of your post which is entirely consistent with an ongoing campaign by this blog regarding Muslims in general.
Linking the European Holocaust in anyway to the plight of Palestinians is indefensible and disgusting. The racists on both sides use the singularly brutal genocide in Europe and its imagery to justify whatever crimes they happen to fancy.
The picture that you chose to posted here does just that and the intent is to dehumanize the over four hundred Palestinian children that died in the last few days.
This is entirely consistent with those old left wing techniques aimed at defending the indefensible.
It is a fine point that may as is usual take you a few days to digest. In summary, don't use the European genocide to make a point about the Palestinian Israeli issue. Its use highlights an underlying antisemitism even if it is used to further dehumanize Palestinians.
Rabee, The allegations of racism are rejected.
The link between the Holocaust and current events in Gaza is being made by supporters of Hamas in Melbourne not by me. You cannot hold me responsible when supporting demonstrators make this link.
No-one dehumanises the Palestinians by pointing out what Hamas stands for. As Bek says this little girl should not be brought up with these attitudes. It is disgraceful.
And how do you arrive at this?
' the intent is to dehumanize the over four hundred Palestinian children that died in the last few days.'
The 'intent'? Even by your usual standards this is a stretch. The post explicitly points out the horrific death toll to the Palestinians and the much smaller toll to Israel.
The attack is clearly on Hamas which triggered this disaster.
In terms of religion Hamas sees this as a holy war to wipe out the Jews. You want me to turn my head and pretend this isn't true.
Harry
The post would be entirely justified
1) if it was about the picture and how child services should look into this obvious case of child abuse
2) if it was about the need for investigating this incitement to genocide by the child's parents.
3) if it was about immigration policy in Australia
Instead it is a post about the events in the Gaza strip and the picture is simply there to focus the mind into a state that dehumanizes the dead children in Gaza.
The picture is being used as a tool to mitigate the discomfort associated with the images of four hundred dead children in Gaza.
Rabee,
These statements:
"the picture is simply there to focus the mind into a state that dehumanizes the dead children in Gaza."
"The picture is being used as a tool to mitigate the discomfort associated with the images of four hundred dead children in Gaza".
are totally unjustified claims. They are your projection onto a post attacking Hamas that have naught to do with reality.
I know you feel strongly about the deaths of these children. So do I. Indeed who (apart from perhaps Hamas) does not?
On the other hand the post does address some of the issues associated with (1)-(3). I am not interested however in 'investigating' things - what is being said and done is clear. I just express my disgust at what is being done to this child.
You often have a curious style of argument but your view that I am somehow displaying antisemitism by showing that the enemies of Israel believe in promoting the virtues of the Holocaust completely escapes me.
The supporters of Hamas are doing what Israel asserts - seeking the destruction of Israel. There are no subtleties here and clearly I don't support this.
This whole thing, Harry, was indeed a trmendous victory for the extremists on both sides, including Hamas. It perpetuates the hate and puts a settlement further away than ever.
Its utterly undeniable, IMO, that the government of Israel holds Palestinian life to be cheap - certainly far, far cheaper than Israeli life.
That NYT article, BTW, has all the signs of a careful piece of hasbara. All previous experience has been that when people get bombs dropped on them they blame the droppers, not their fellow droppees.
DD,
You use the term hasbara which is discussed here.
I found the discussion useful.
Harry,
400 Children killed by Israel. That's all you need to make a note of. Their response to rocket attacks in which only 21 Israels were killed in 8 years was vile, violent, disproportionate and coldly political. They have committed war crimes, and it seems you support them.
harry, if people do not understand that using children as human shields is wrong, then nothing you say is ever going to convince them that it is. You appear to be (valiantly) fighting a losing battle with some here.
While it is unutterably sad that children in Gaza have died during the Israeli response to Hamas terrorism, the deaths are, as you say, on hamas and the parents who allowed their children to live next door to terrorists. I do think that the world is at least beginning to see this. There will always be crackpots who think that Israel should not target terrorists who surround themselves with children, and therefore terrorists should not be targeted. But remember, these people always have an underlying agenda. And it is the elimination of the state of Israel.
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