Thursday, February 01, 2007

Hakeem Hakeem & limits to compassion

Hakeem Hakeem has been sentenced to 24 years jail for the violent rape of a 63 year old woman and for raping and assaulting 3 teenagers all in a period of 3 days. Before the attacks he had been chroming and using amphetamines. The 63 year-old woman he attacked spent more than a week in hospital recovering from fractures to her eye socket, nose and cheek that she suffered during the savage beating.

Hakeem entered Australia only a month before the attacks as a refugee from Sudan. In his defence it was argued that Hakeem was young and had experienced violence in both Sudan and Egypt. He had also been forced to leave his infant son and girlfriend behind in Egypt and apparently didn’t want to be in Australia.

Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews has ordered an investigation into how the troubled Sudanese refugee was allowed to settle in Australia and will consider deporting him after the 21-year-old has served his time in jail.

I am interested in the outcome of this inquiry. The unfortunate Hakeem has had a miserable life but granting him refugee status was a mistake. Compassion has been stretched too far. Noone develops a drug dependence in a month. As Neil Mitchell points out there are problems in the Sudanese community in Australia that cannot be glossed over by appealing to their difficult circumstances back in the Sudan. As Mitchell continues:

‘There is now increasing evidence of a culture of violence imported to this country with some refugees. There is no point dodging around that fact for fear of being called racist’.

37 comments:

derrida derider said...

"he didn't want to live in Australia"
Of course not - he had to leave Sudan. That's what being a refugee means, Harry.

It's not "glossing over" things to point out that a childhood and adolescence of grisly war and chaotic poverty is not good preparation for being a fine upstanding citizen of any society. That's an explanation for his behaviour, not an excuse, BTW.

The question is, are you going to make a blanket determination to allow refugess to die just to avoid the chance that some of them are not nice people? Otherwise, how are you going to pick and choose among people who almost by definition had disturbed (IME sometimes gruesomely so) upbringings?

I use to deal with refugees fresh off the boat, Harry - most of them were desperate to build a new, stable life.

The main exceptions I can remember were the handful of Cubans I dealt with from the great Mariana boatlift, when Carter made the mistake of publicly calling for Castro to free all self-identified "political prisoners" and let them emigrate. All the crims in maximum security immediately declared themselves to be politicals, and Castro was delighted to get rid of them.

hc said...

DD, I think his family forced/encouraged himn to leave.

I understand the explanation for his behaviour but, yes, don't accept it as an excuse at all. We obviously don't want people like this.

What in the name of hell was DIMA doing with respect to this guy? How could anuyone make such a gross error of judgement?

You raise the issue of 'blanket determination ' which I didn't mention. Of course I want refugees screened and violent potential problems for Australia not accepted. I don't care about their compassionate needs - the needs of people in the destination country take precedence.

A lot of refugees arrive from terrible situations - Jews escaping from the Holocaust for example - and make fine citizens.

But clearly violent, drug addicted rapists no-one wants.

Sir Henry Casingbroke said...

You would have to show endemic problems among the Sudanese before you could make sweeping statements like that.

Point two: bureaucracies make mistakes all the time. Sometimes the mistakes do not have such horrific consequences. Recall Lennie Lawson, the rapist who was let out of jail on parole.

Point three: Refugees coming from wartorn countries are always a risk. Generally speaking, that is the nature of refugees, it comes with the territory. We have to accept such risks, ugly as they are.

Point four: Not all refugees are rotten to the core and we should take the risk, for the greater benefit and humanity. I am a refugee Harry and have passed myself off as a white man. i am now a useful member of society (although it has taken a while to socialise me).

hc said...

Come on Jack let's have a civilised discussion for once avoiding the crappy exaggerations and emotion.

Sweeping statements like what? I quoted Neil Mitchell.

Excuse for mistake - everyone makes mistakes! Oh no!

We have to accept risks like this? No we don't we can (and do) screen. It was a screening error that damaged the life of four total innocents.

Who said all refugees were rotten to the core? Crass illogic Jack.

And the fact that you are a poor refo who achieved a peerage and an Aussie beer belly has bugger all to do with anything.

My great grandfather came to Aus with a chain around his leg. So what?

Oi! Oi! Oi! said...

In order to avoid having Midrashas being built in Carlton, Australia must control or even stop Muslim immigration.

Think of the hatred these people bring with them.

I fully support Harry on this issue!

Sir Henry Casingbroke said...

Harry, Mitchell is a professional provocateur, that's his job. People who haven't had the benefit of a good education and who haven't been taught how to make considered and critical analyses will parrot off what a populist radio host says. But I expect more than mindless barbershop babble from you.

Bureaucracies do make mistakes. Some are more prone to mistakes than others. NSW state rail authority is one. The immigration department is another where endemic error-prone stumble-bum culture has been allowed to develop and now seems to be hard to rectify.

The fact that your great-grandfather came out here as a convict is a complete red herring, as well you know. He was not a refugee and the local authorities had no choice but to take him in. (BTW, what was he done for? Loaf of bread? Forgery? Sheep stealing?)

Brownie said...

I wonder if the Sudanese excuse for a human, might have been more stable if his wife and child had been accepted here with him?

Makes a mockery of the poor bastards in Baxter Detention dont it?

My convict ancestor got "14 years transportation for being in possession of a quantity of pigfat for which he had no logical explanation".

Many things have no logical explanation.

Sam Ward said...

Sudanese refugees over here have already formed themselves into gangs and are involved in violent brawls every weekend with other ethnic gangs.

It's taken less than 5 years for that situation to come about.

Fuzzflash said...

"I use to deal with refugees fresh off the boat, Harry - most of them were desperate to build a new, stable life."

And the vast majority do, DD, like the 20,000 from South Vietnam that Mal Fraser brought to Oz in a heartbeat, after the futile and hubristic invasion and occupation of their homeland.

Xenophobes, like morons and taxes will always be with us. So will the will the bigoted shills of wedge politics, (take a bow Gloria). Unfortunately, it has always been thus, a point brilliantly noted in a poem by Spyros Kyriazopoulos at the start of Louis De Bernier's novel "Birds Without Wings".

THE CAT

She was licking
the open tin
for hours and hours
without realising
that she was drinking
her own blood.

conrad said...

This is a bit off topic, but it would interesting to know what factors have lead to some minority of the Sudanese forming violent gangs so quickly -- there are other groups where people have also come from fairly aweful circumstances (the North Africans in France, the Lebanese in Australia), but it seems to be either the second generation or at least the almost second generation (i.e., children of adults) where this happens. Whats special in this case?

Sir Henry Casingbroke said...

Yob, gangs? Did you ever see the film Gangs of New York? The there's a book by a Sydney gunman (of Irish extraction) Chow Hayes, it tells the story of Sydney gangs in the 30s and 40s. Then there's a book by Abo Henry about the gangs of Epping.

I just saw a doco about the Sudanese on the telly (8.30pm SBS). They looked sort of human to me, albeit very very black. Sure, they have problems. Perhaps it is our white man's burden to civilise them.

Harry, if I was overly flippant I'm sorry it upset you. Underneath it all I am quite serious. This issue deserves serious consideration.

Is the incidence of criminal behaviour higher among Sudanese than other ethnic groups? Anglo-Celts? Is this a genetic predisposition, do you think?

Do these people deliberately put themselves outside the social contract? Is rape, violence and pillage genuinely endemic among them?

There was a time when Yugoslavs (they weren't differentiated into Serbs and Croats then) formed a disproportionate group in NSW jails, and at the most violent end of offences.

Recall the tabloid hysteria about the Cosa Nostra in the Melbourne markets and ditto when Donald McKay copped a bullet in Griffiths.

I know that "perspective" and "long-view" are inconvenient terms just when a lynch mob is forming.

I am coming to a realisation that we are now in the grip of an ideology which holds that the permissive 60s brought us a generation of soft-headed, value-free nihilists and under those circumstances we are ripe for a take over by barbarians at the gate: Islamists, Sudanese. Hence these culture wars that O'Reilly of Fox is ranting on about.

"Political order can be stable only if it is united by an external threat" - Leo Strauss.

Is this crass illogic(allity)?

Sam Ward said...

Yob, gangs?

Yes, Henry, Gangs.

Did you ever see the film Gangs of New York? The there's a book by a Sydney gunman (of Irish extraction) Chow Hayes, it tells the story of Sydney gangs in the 30s and 40s. Then there's a book by Abo Henry about the gangs of Epping.

That's awesome, and yet, completely irrelevant.

I just saw a doco about the Sudanese on the telly (8.30pm SBS). They looked sort of human to me, albeit very very black. Sure, they have problems. Perhaps it is our white man's burden to civilise them.

Yeah, because me and harry are just racists who hate black people. The behaviour of Sudanese refugees has nothing to with anything.

Harry, if I was overly flippant I'm sorry it upset you. Underneath it all I am quite serious. This issue deserves serious consideration.

But not from you obviously, as you seem to believe any criticism of immigration is based on racism.

Is the incidence of criminal behaviour higher among Sudanese than other ethnic groups?

Yes, it is.

Anglo-Celts?

Is this a genetic predisposition, do you think?

No, it's a cultural one. But you already know we are racists, so theres no reason for you to change your mind now.

Do these people deliberately put themselves outside the social contract? Is rape, violence and pillage genuinely endemic among them?

Apparently so.

There was a time when Yugoslavs (they weren't differentiated into Serbs and Croats then) formed a disproportionate group in NSW jails, and at the most violent end of offences.

So whats your point? We should grant all new immigrant groups amnesty due to "growing pains"? And if someone gets raped, its just a sacrifice in the strive for a multicultural society?

Recall the tabloid hysteria about the Cosa Nostra in the Melbourne markets and ditto when Donald McKay copped a bullet in Griffiths.

So the Melbourne Cosa Nostra is a myth, in your opinion?

Obviously you are safe in your gated community. Good for you.

conrad said...

I'm with Yobbo on this. I don't see why we shouldn't admit there is a gang problem when there is, although I personally doubt they have a higher crime rate than SES matched whites (its hard to go much higher). Thats true for any group.

However, for all I know, it might be because we are letting in people we post traumatic stress etc., which wouldn't be surprising given they come from a disaster area. It IS possible to deal with some of these things (far easier than crime caused by endemic poverty) -- its just a matter of finding the right solution.

hc said...

I almost despair with respect to the way these debates run.

A guy enters Australia as a refugee (Kompassion with cap K goes into overdrive) and rapes and bashes 4 innocents a month after his entry and I assert the unsuitability of his entry. I also support an inquiry into how he got here. I also raise the more general issue of whether people with these violent, traumatised backgrounds are what Australia wants.

But again the issue turns on direct or indirect claims of racism. It is pathetic and wrong.

It is almost impossible to discuss immigration issues in Australia today without encountering this foolishness.

derrida derider said...

I for one, Harry, am not accusing you of racism (though I wouldn't extend the same charity to dog-whistling shock jocks).

But you should be a bit more cautious in generalising from single cases to whole communities - you've got form in previous posts on this, so it's not surprising some people assume you're doing it again.

Now as for screening, these are refugees, Harry - people who've fled a country in terror of the local officialdom. Asking their details from that officialdom, where it even exists, is not going to get accurate information. Really in many cases you have no choice but to take them at their word. The alternative - and this is the point I was getting at - is to send innocent people back to die.

So sadly occasional cases like this do come with the territory of accepting refugees - the alternatives are worse.

hc said...

DD

If it was true as you say that screening is impossible and Hakeem's can enter without any checks then let's stop it. But it isn't true. Most refugees entering Australia from Asia had family links in Australia and this information was gleaned by a lengthy screening process.

Indeed it was partly this lengthy process that led to cue-jumping by boatpeople with their demands for immediate right of entry.

Anonymous said...

Other questions (not answered in the two linked articles) though some readers will almost surely know more, are:

1. What sort of support/links in the community did HH have after leaving custody of the govt.? Govt.? (Sudanese) Community? Church?

2. If HH was on a drug/alcohol spree what did his associates /support services see (and what was reasonable for them to see or do?) If it is the case that gangs among Sudanese (or other newly arrived refugees) is a problem someone must know (or if not working, concerns must arise?)

The gang problem is probably the more general problem for policymakers.

Sir Henry Casingbroke said...

Come on Yobbo, I never said that either you or Harry were racists. This is a reverse logic argument to fit me up into a category of airhead leftist who (allegedly) scream "racist" every time anyone touches an ethnic or a black, no matter what they have done.

I know for certain that Harry is not a racist. He and I have been mates since 1964. We went to school together. For many other reasons it is patently obvious that Harry is not a racist, but I won't go into them here.

There is no evidence to me that you are a racist. Quite the reverse I would think, from what little I know of you.

My point is? That gangs are as a result of deprivation and laienation, where young men full of hormones gang together for collective security.

I live and work on the northern beaches of Sydney where there are Men of Pacific Islander appearance. As a journalist I see filed stories that would suggest that such persons are disproportionately involved in street violence, especially after hours. We seem to cope with it, and the coppers do their best. The problem is not out of control.

Maybe young Sudanese blokes need a bit more intensive therapy of a socialising kind. The cooking lessons on the teev were most instructive on that. I wish you'd watched the show, did you?

The extra yards are worth the effort, for my money, literally and figuratively (I pay tax).

Anonymous said...

This is a response to DD's comments. Would you still be pro-refugee if it was your grandmother or daughter who was raped and bashd by this Sudanese refugee. I bet not.

conrad said...

"My point is? That gangs are as a result of deprivation and laienation, where young men full of hormones gang together for collective security."

I think this is probably true of the second generation gangs. Alternatively, I'm not convinced that it is true of new arrivals. Forming gangs as so you turn up is really a different thing to forming gangs after chronic harassment from the general population.

conrad said...

sorry, that should be "as soon as you turn up"

Sir Henry Casingbroke said...

Ah Yobbo, Yobbo. Now I know why you say those hurtful things. You can't read the posts to be able to respond to them logically. All that bluster is just embarrassment, isn't it? It is not too late to go to a workers' education (WEA) class and brush up on comprehension. By the way, there is no need to copy my quotes back to me, just have someone read them out to you.

Remember Harry? We were in a gang once: the DY Basin Gang. Hey Harry, did you cut my previous post? I can understand that. I'll keep mum about all that, fair enough.

hc said...

Now, now boys I want you to behave in a civil manner.

I didn't cut your post Sir Henry & yes I do remember the Basin Gang
and lewd thoughts of Virginia.

observa said...

The govt is recognising its mistake it seems http://www.news.com.au/sundayheraldsun/story/0,21985,21166482-661,00.html

concerned australian said...

Sam Ward, you need to use your grey matter! Conrad hit the concept on the head. Screen out violent tendencies, etc. Don't screen based on land of origin or ethnicity. Lets keep Anglo Celtic psychos too...Or do you prefer Aussies to be beaten up and raped by white folk??

Alibaba said...

oi oi oi,
Nobody really shares Harry view. We just let him indulging crazy talk. Only a sock puppet would agree with Nutty Professor Clarke

Anonymous said...

Alibaba

One person agreed with me Ali. The new Minister for Immigration who lauched an investigation into how Hakeem got in. He subsequently presented a submission to cabinet seeking to end refugee migration from Sudan - taking it instead from Asia.

How come you make your strong insulting views from behind the cloak of anonymity?

hc

alibaba said...

Ali scared Harry will deport him!

Ged said...

I am trying my absolute hardest to NOT scream racist at those who are saying "Apparrently there is a culture of violence in Sudanese". So instead i'll try and follow the views of some of those people themselves. So, after we'd labelled the entire sudanese population, we criticise the system that brought them here.. Lets begin.

You know, its kind of funny how our when our "screening process" fails, everyone kicks up a spit about it, but when its working ok, everyone insists that Mandatory Detention is GREAT and it works FANTASTICALLY! Lets think, if Australia is the ONLY country in the world with Mandatory Detention, maybe, just maybe, we're doing things the WRONG WAY. Lets take Sweden as our model. Firstly, can i note that Sweden takes 3 times the amount of refugees per citizen than we australians do. Under their system, all refugees and asylum seekers are screened very briefly and then integrated into the community, having to report once a month to a supervisor (similar to a parole officer, without the negative connotations.) Now, this system is possibly the most effective in the world. They steer clear of the American option (Shoot mexican on sight.) or the Australian option (imprison 10 year old sudanese in Villawood before clearing that she isnt a terrorist/rapist/gang member.), and their society is FAR more harmonious as a result. No gangs, no serial rapists, no muslim extremists (which, its worthy to note we have found NONE of in australia), no problems at all. You'd think that maybe, just maybe, our policy isnt working?

(Also, Mitchell's comments were just blatantly stupid. I'm 16 years old and after 1 term of doing Critical Literacy i can point out several hundred flaws in his article. Its completely illogical.)

sleeptard said...

The concept of 'refugee' is the problem. Western societies are great places to live, and the rest of the world (3-4 billion souls)would gladly move to the West if not for the existence of borders (and sometimes oceans).

A refugee is another word for quitter. If they really were worth a damn, they would stay in their home country and improve conditions there. Instead, they say, "Let george do it, I'm moving to the West where the good life has been bought and paid for by the blood and sweat of others."

The word refugee makes some people soft in the head. By definition, there are billions of potential 'refugees' and the West has no moral obligation to take a single one.

Last Aussie in Burwoo said...

I'm with Sleeptard. Let's all stay in our own countries and sort out our own problems without spreading poverty and misery everywhere. By all means assist people with infrastructure and access to clean water, food and dwellings. And don't forget the problems in Sudan are mostly caused by Muslims imposing their way of life on others.

Mass immigration and multiculti is genocide for Australians and our way of life - black, white and brindle Australians.

Darrin Hodges said...

Derrida said - "The question is, are you going to make a blanket determination to allow refugess to die just to avoid the chance that some of them are not nice people?"

Sure, bring them in and allow a few aussie women to be raped/infected/killed on the off chance their might be a good refo amongst them.

Anonymous said...

Toowoomba African rapes woman.
Ipswich Africans attempted daylight random and abduction and gang rape of Samoan woman.
Adelaide African Judo teacher rapes his boarders.
Perth teen loses eye after being attacked by africans.
Somali kills one in Abbotoir stab spree.
African learner criver mows down crowd injuring 10; killing 1 Emma Hansen.
Eddie Spowart murdered for smokes by Sydney African gang.
QLD off duty police bashed by Sudanese gang at Souths Rugby Club, Moorooka.
10 Wagga Wagga Africans bash woman.

Anonymous said...

Victim of Swedish muslim gang rape:

That race card puller is a complete liar.

Sweden has 10 times the muslim and african rape problem that Australia has. This idiot has failed to do their research.

The majority of the crime in Sweden is by immigrants.

Anonymous said...

Ged: Somali leaders blame Norwegian girls for gang rape.

Anonymous said...

It will take 30 000 years at current rates to be able to take in the refugees.

this will never happen because after a few decades australia will be a ghetto and wont be able to take in any more refugees.

Anonymous said...

african abductors in concord, sydney nsw australia a week ago.

african gang rapists goodna, qld