Monday, November 26, 2007

Saudi justice for women

The Saudis are indeed wealthy barbarians. It is not being anti-Islamic to point to the horrors of a justice system which condemns a 19 year old woman to 200 lashes and one year’s jail for being gang-raped by 7 men at knifepoint for whom guilt (in Saudi terms) has been established*. Her husband has said they wish to appeal the decision – the courts have threatened an increased charge if they do. The court's claim - they are implementing the word of God as set out in the Koran. Specifically the Justice Ministry stated that:

The ministry also stressed the Saudi judicial system was based on Islamic law derived from the holy Koran and that a court ruling in the kingdom was only made after both sides in a case are given a fair and balanced hearing.
The woman is a Shiite and her female defence attorney is now facing criminal prosecution too for daring to offer her a defence.

In my view we have nothing to learn from such primitive, barbaric cultures other than to reject them. The West has much better values generally and certainly a more civilised justice system. Cultural relativism - forget it - I am not interested.

We have a valid interest in protecting our societies from people who hold such repugnant, intolerant views or who turn a blind eye when they are exercised. It is both the judicial crime itself that is the problem here and the society that endorses this as reasonable behaviour.

It is interesting to also note that Saudi Arabia is the source of 41% of the foreign terrorist fighters in Iraq. Most of these vermin are trying to foist their hateful values onto other more tolerant Muslim societies.

Where are the cries of opposition from the decent Muslims we are supposed to have in Australia? How many have protested? Tell us again fellows how women are truly liberated under Islam. Every instance of tyranny against women under Islam is an exception isn’t it?

And why the silence from the Australian left? I guess it isn’t a ‘Zionist atrocity’ and you can’t put this one down to George Bush. It is pure leftwing hypocrisy and part based on the fear that any criticism of any aspect of life in these sorts of societies is seen as culturally insensitive.

** Not that being guilty of voluntarily having intercourse with 7 men would justify a whipping or imprisonment. But even accepting the oppressive Puritanism of this awful society it remains unjust for the women given that she has been raped.


conrad said...

What surprised me is how weak the rest of the world was (not just Aus). Most comments (excluding NZ!) were things like "astonished" vs. what seems appropriate, which wouldn't get past your spam filter. Even Burma, CHina, and other such authoritarian regimes at least try and hide it when they do such things. The Saudis seem to believe they are correct.

Yobbo said...

Agreed, this whole banning women from talking to unrelated men is a barbaric law.

They should just be made to register themselves with the government and fraternise once a week in dedicated government fraternisation centres!

Can I Get a Halle-fucking-lejuh Harry?

derrida derider said...

Yep, this is something we can't blame GWB for - he's too busy drumming up another unprovoked war with the Saudi's enemies to intervene with the Bush family friends (as the Saudi ruling family most certainly is).

You're right that righteous bigotry is a terrible thing, Harry - just make sure you don't succumb to it.

Francis Xavier Holden said...

It's horrific. I've never been comfortableqwith those Australians who "work" in Saudi or similar and say that life is ok there.

I hear recent news reports of an Australian academic going around embassies in Italy seeking asylum. Know anything about it Harry?

Francis Xavier Holden said...

Actually in this case I can't help but admire the husband in standing by his wife. He must face enormous pressures.

hc said...

Conrad, The Canadian Government did describe the Saudi verdicts as 'barbaric'. The verdict defies sense but that any government could seek to defend it suggests a deep malaise.

Thanks Yobbo. I guess they could pick up their cigarettes while there.

DD, It is your response - the suggestion that their is an element of bigotry - that operates to defend these cretins.

FXH, I would run out of money too soon. But yes, a long term stint in Italy is something I could take to. Very rational society in terms of human values and lifestyle. Also, like Saudi, a fairly religious one but a civilised, attractive society not an oppressive one.

melaleuca said...

Settle down Harry. That evil left wing newspaper The Age reported the story. Also, as a leftist I feel disgusted by the whole thing. To paraphrase John Lennon, women are the niggers of the Islamic world.


rabee said...


I thought that your world view would have by now adjusted to the cognitive dissonance we all experienced in the recent elections.

In any case, you may want to read a few prominent academic blogs that are outraged by this. Yes they are real people, real academics, real muslims, and vocally outraged. See for instance.

Click here.

hc said...

What about Muslim leaders around the world Rabee? Why not an overwhelming revulsion that this sort of thing can happen?

The Saudi monarch recently met with the Pope in Rome and exchanged gifts.

The best gift the Saudis could give the world would be to enable the millions of Phillipine workers in their country the freedom to openly practise their religion.

rabee said...

Well Harry I don't know any middle eastern leaders, or any other political leaders.

Come to think of it I only talk to academics and students. So I can only point you to scholars that I happen to respect who are pretty disgusted by Saudi Arabia.

Let me point out that there are very serious scholars who happen to be Muslim and who are always interested in measured discourse. Of course, they don't read little green footballs.

Khalid said...

There is a very large degree of righteous bigotry in this item, as one of your commenters noted.

This is exemplified by the incorrect remark by the blog owner that the woman in question was being lashed for the offence of being gang-raped. She is in fact being punished for openly committing adultery. This is a grievous crime against the will of Allah, and thus against the law of our great country. The punishment is in fact quite moderate and proportional to the crime.

You will note that the perpetrators of the separate crime of rape against this woman are being even more severely punished, despite the extreme provocation of observing her adultery.

This posting is just another example of many people in the Western world's wicked attitude against the Muslims, who in fact lead the world in giving an example of moral conduct and observing the law of Allah.

hc said...

Khalid, You don't lead the world in anything other than barbarism.

Religious bigotry? I think that coming from a country where it is open only to practise a single religion it is hypocrisy to talk of bigotry.

Her lawyer and her husband dispute the charges of adultery.

This sounds like a pack of lies invented by the Justice Ministry to cover Saudi embarrassment. Even your ally the US has condemned this barbaric treatment.

The woman is a victim not a criminal and you should be ashamed of persecuting her.

Even had she committed adultery (it seems she didn't) this punishment is 'not quite moderate'. It is cruel and excessive.

rabee said...


I guess that you are under the impression that Khalid is in fact a Saudi Arabian.

Sounds to me like another Lindsay pamphlet.

hc said...


You might be right - I cannot tell.

My comments in any event on the adultery issue are accurate. The Saudi Justice Ministry is now attempting to rationalise this atrocious action with the line she had committed adultery.

Anonymous said...

Saudi Arabia does not have a constitution, let alone a proper justice system. This is what happens when ignorant desert tribesmen run into trillions of dollars. Colonialism would have been better for the world and their people than this mob of pig-ignorant animals.

Oh, yes, and up-yours Khalid if you are real. Come to think of it up-yours if you are faking it too.

Bring on the uranium and put these fu**ers out of business.

Anonymous said...

Julie said: One saudi friend of mine escaped the wretched pit. She was a roomate at the UW. After she rejected an arranged marraige - her father and brother burst into our apartment just as I was packing to go duck huting :). One was bitten by my retriever and the other ran screaming at the sight of a woman with a shotgun. My friend has since changed her name and religion and lives a normal life in the USA.